Alexis Tsipras: ”Åtstramningen skickar oss åt helvete”

Alexis Tsipras är ordförande för det grekiska partiet Synaspismos samt talesman i parlamentet för den bredare Koalitionen radikala vänstern, Syriza.  En roll som han hade också i den inflammerade valrörelsen och uppenbart var det då rätt man som hamnat på rätt plats, i rätt tid. I hård konfrontation formulerade han mycket skickligt många grekers avsky över de stora partiernas lögnaktighet, tygellösa korruption och trogna tjänande åt Greklands rika överklass. Han och Syriza vägrar också att godta dessa partiers budgetuppgörelser med trojkan EU,ECB och IMF. Det budgetavtal, vilket exempelvis Svenska Dagbladet prisar som ”Greklands finansiella livlina”, vill Syriza i stället kapa eftersom det är en strypsnara för landets ekonomi och sociala välfärd.

Under valrörelsen och under de stormiga nio dagarna efter Syrizas framgång den 6 maj har valkoalitionen vägrat att rucka på sin inställning i denna centrala fråga utan har fortsatt att benhårt försvara sitt fempunktsprogram för en grekisk vänsterregering. Vilket självfallet ger energi åt den politiska kampen i det nyval som kommer i juni. Det gör också solidariteten med Syriza till en viktig fråga för oss socialister!

Denna grundläggande inställning präglar Tsipras svar också i den uppmärksammade intervju som CNN:s populära programledare Cristiane Amanpour gjort med honom och som vi här lägger ut oavkortad. I Grekland har en del översittare från den gamla dekadenta politiska eliten försökt utnyttja denna till att håna Tsipras för att denne inte snabbt nog kunde formulera sig på en helt klanderfri engelska. Ett raljerande som bara visar att de själva inte med en enda stavelse ens på grekiska bryr sig om att många greker helt i onödan tvingas att leva i fattigdom. På vår blogg delar vi Tsipras och Syrizas grundinställning när det gäller landets skulder: ”En offentlig revision av alla avtal – Ogiltigförklarande av alla illegitima anspråk”. Men vi menar att det samtidigt på ett helt annat sätt än i intervjun är nödvändigt att klargöra för alla väljare att en framgång för de egna kraven också innebär ett öppet krig med det europeiska finanskapitalet. Den vänsterregering som ogiltigförklarar avtalen om åtstramning måste också vinna ett brett stöd för att genom demokratiska beslut stoppa kapitalflykt, ta kontrollen över landets banker och viktig utrikeshandel.

 

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CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: Mr Tsipras, thank you for joining me from Athens. Mrs Merkel has said you either do the reform and the austerity or you are out of the euro.

Do you think that the German chancellor is bluffing?

ALEXIS TSIPRAS: I don’t know what Mrs – Madam Merkel wants to do. But I know what we want to do. We don’t want Greece outside – outside Europe. We don’t want Greece outside – outside the euro. We don’t want Greece outside the Eurozone. We want Greece inside euro and inside eurozone.

But I – we feel that Madam Merkel puts euro and Eurozone in a big danger by keeping we – in these austerity measures. The austerity measures put Europe and the eurozone in a big danger.

So we want to change the austerity measures, also in Greece and also in Europe. That’s what we want to do and we want to do this with – in cooperation with the other forces and the – the – the people of – of Europe, the people who want a big change, because everybody now, at this time that, with this policy, we are going directly to the hell. And we want to change this – this way.

AMANPOUR: You know, you talk about going directly to hell. And a lot of people are concerned, because, obviously, this would be unprecedented, if Greece leaves the euro and goes back to the drachma. Nobody knows what that would mean.

If that happens, what do you think it would mean for Greece and for Europe?

TSIPRAS: We believe that if Greece go back to – to – to drachma, that the second day, the other countries in Europe will have the – the same problem. And I – I really disagree with a lot of things that Madam Merkel say and do.

But I – I – I – I agree with that that she said. She said before – before a month – a month ago, a month before, that if Greece go out of euro, the second day, the markets will find who will be the second. And the second will be Italy or Spain.

Italy has a very big debt, public debt, not like Greece. Greece have 3,500 million euros, but Italy has a debt about 1.9 trillion.

So you can understand what I was meaning when I was telling to you that this road goes to hell. We don’t want Europe to be in – in – in a catastrophe way. So if we want to save Europe, we need to change – to change these directions.

AMANPOUR: I hear you loud and clear. And you keep saying we do not want to do austerity, we need to change this.

What is your responsibility, as a Greek politician, to make this work?

TSIPRAS: No, I don’t believe that we will have a benefit if Greece goes back to the drachma. I don’t believe that because as – as I told you before, the second day, the Eurozone will be in a big disaster.

So I don’t – we don’t – we don’t want a whole catastrophe of the Eurozone and for Europe.

And, at the same time, we don’t want to go back to drachmas because, in Greece, we will have the poor people to have drachmas and the rich people to buy everything with euro.

And this evolution, it will not a good evolution for society and for the people. We – we are here to – to – to try to be with – with the majority. And the majority of people need to be in a safe way.

So that’s why we don’t that we will have a benefit with the drachma.

AMANPOUR: OK.

TSIPRAS: It’s clear for us, we will be – we will do whatever we could do in this direction, to keep Greece inside the Eurozone and inside Europe.

But as I told you before, we are watching this situation in – in – in the whole view of Europe and the eurozone. You can understand what will happen if Eurozone will – will be split – splitted and if Eurozone will be in – in this big danger.

AMANPOUR: Right. You said you…

TSIPRAS: So…

AMANPOUR: You said you’re…

TSIPRAS: – I think that our position is clear in this…

AMANPOUR: It’s clear.

TSIPRAS: – in these questions.

AMANPOUR: It’s very clear.

TSIPRAS: OK.

AMANPOUR: But you said you’ll do everything that you can do. Just tell me, what will you do?

TSIPRAS: First of all, we will cancel all – all Greece’s austerity measures in memorandum. Do you know the memorandum?

AMANPOUR: Yes.

TSIPRAS: We will cancel the memorandum. And then we will go to renegotiate, in a European level, about a common way to go out – to go outside of this crisis.

And we that this crisis is not a Greek crisis, but a European crisis. And we will try to find a common solution. And I said to you before, what’s – what’s our opinion about the solutions, about the role of ECB, about the Eurobonds, about the negotiation of the debt in the European level of – of – of the public debt of – of all the European countries.

That’s – that’s – that’s our opinion. That’s our position. And I think it’s a clear position.

AMANPOUR: And do you think you’ll…

TSIPRAS: Again…

AMANPOUR: – do you think you’ll have partners for that negotiation?

TSIPRAS: Yes, we think that we will find partners. First of all, in – in the south countries, I think that we’ll have the – the same problem with Italy, with Spain, with Portugal and also with Ireland. And I think that we will find partners, and also in the Central Europe.

I’m looking very positive the change in – in France, with Mr Hollande’s win in the elections. We will try to find – to find partners. But I think that the situation – the political situation in Europe will change the next days, especially after the big change in Greece. These…

AMANPOUR: And do you think you’ll win?

TSIPRAS: – these people instead in this – in this – in this opinion that we – we don’t want more state measures. We – we can’t go on with these austerity measures, because everything is – was destroyed in Greece.

If the Greek people stick in this opinion, I think that everything will change in Europe.

AMANPOUR: Mr Tsipras, thank you very much, indeed.

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